HIV/AIDS 特别报道
2017年06月号
医学进展
HIV/AIDS 特别报道

对话 HIV/AIDS

作者:生命新知

The world is observing the International AIDS Candlelight Memorial on May 21st. What is the objective of the movement? HIV/AIDS not only threatens the health and lives that have been infected but also affects their families. What can be done to support the children of parents with the virus? China has taken great efforts to prevent and control the disease,is the mechanism working? HIV has been transformed into a treatable condition, can this advancement of modern medicine eventually cure AIDS?
全世界的目光都聚焦在5月21日的国际艾滋病烛光纪念日上。这一活动的目的是什么? HIV/AIDS不但威胁到了感染者的健康和生命,而且也影响到了他们的家人。该为HIV/AIDS父母的孩子做些什么?中国政府花了大力气来防控该病,是否有效?HIV如今已经是一种有法可治的疾病,现代医学的进步是否可以最终治愈AIDS?
Anchor Zou Yue:The International Aids Candlelight Memorial has been observed across the globe on the third Sunday of May since 1983. The objective of the movement is to mobilize public opinion and generate awareness of ongoing issues surrounding HIV/AIDS. And according to official data, China has taken effective measures to control the disease spreading, especially among homosexual populations and drug abusers.
But college students should know that the rate of heterosexual transmission of HIV/AIDS are still on the rise and better awareness about prevention continues to be vital, and to talk about this issues much more, I am happy to be jointed in the studio by Mr. Du Cong, founder and chairperson of Chi Heng foundation and Professor Xiao Fei from the China food and drug administration institute of executive development.
This is our topic, this is the dialogue. I am Zou Yue.   
邹悦(主持人):从1983年起,每年 5月的第三个星期天,国际艾滋病烛光纪念活动就会在全世界展开。此活动的目的是动员社会舆论的力量,提高对HIV/AIDS的全面认知。根据官方数据,中国政府也采取了有效的措施来控制疾病的传播,特别是在同性恋群体以及吸毒群体中。大学生群体也该知道,HIV/AIDS的异性传播率仍然呈现上升趋势,需要提高预防意识。为了更深入地探讨此话题,我很高兴在直播间邀请到了智行基金会的创办者、主席杜聪先生,以及来自国家食品药品监督管理总局高级研修学院的肖飞教授。
今天我们将聊聊HIV/AIDS,这里是对话节目,我是邹悦。

Zou:The topic is for AIDS, so how would you describe the state against HIV/AIDS the epidemic globally, where we are now?
邹悦:今天节目主题是艾滋病,你会如何描述全球抗击HIV/AIDS流行的情况?我们现在走到了哪一步?

Mr. Du Cong:Actually on the medical front, I think, we have been made a significant progress when the AIDS Candlelight Memorial first started in 1983. And I was a high school student in San Francisco. At that time, HIV/AIDS was still incurable. When you got HIV you are almost certain left to die.
杜聪:事实上,在医疗前线,当艾滋病烛光纪念日于1983年第一次开始时,已经有了很大的进展。当时我在旧金山念高中,那时候艾滋病还无法治愈。如果你被确诊感染HIV,你几乎只能等死。


Zou:People knew very little about the disease at that time.
邹悦:当时人们对这种病了解得非常少。

Du:There was lot of social stigma and my high school teacher die of AIDS around that time and that is why I was so passionate about HIV/AIDS issues. But now especially since 1996/1997, when the antiretroviral treatment was available. The lives of HIV patients are signicicantly prolonged. And now people with HIV/AIDS could live relatively healthy life and life expectancy has increased significantly and now is catching up with people who do not have HIV. But on the social level, there are still a lots of stigma associated with HIV, and that something we have to work on because that impacts the social status of the People and also the employment, school, and lot of other daily lives.
杜聪:当时社会上有很多歧视,我的高中老师是因为艾滋病而去世的,这也是我为什么对HIV/AIDS如此感兴趣的原因。现在艾滋病的治疗已经取得了进展,特别是1996年到1997年期间,抗逆转录病毒疗法问世。艾滋病患者的预期寿命得到了明显的延长。现在艾滋病患者可以过着相对健康的生活,预期寿命延长,已经跟没有感染HIV的人们相当。但就社会层面而言,人们对艾滋病病毒感染者仍然存在很多歧视。这是我们必须努力的方向,因为这关系到这些人的社会地位、就业、上学和其他日常生活的方方面面。

Zou:Let us talk about the medical dimension of the disease first. Are we making or are we ready to make the breakthroughs in terms of the diagnosis, treatment of HIV/AIDS any time soon?
邹悦:我们从医学层面来谈谈此病,我们是否在HIV/AIDS的诊断和治疗方面正在实现或已经准备好随时实现突破?

Professor Xiao Fei:Let us talk about the history of the AIDS. Actually, the first case was reported back to 1981, by that time just like other infectious disease, and there was a big panic happened to the society. Actually, the people did not know where is the disease come from and what’s the infectious disease infect other people and what’s the channel, what’s the way to infect? So people try to avoid whoever  suffered the disease. Actually, I remember the news reported that the public pool closed, the victim of the disease was kicked out of the hospital,and the unfortunatekid infected through the blood transfusion has been rejected from the school. So there was a time very panic. But after 1983, the scientists identified what cause the disease,that’s the HIV being identified. So the public is very happy, because everybody think, that’s the virus cause the disease, we can use a vaccine, we can use the antiviral treatment to control and cure the disease.
肖飞:让我们谈谈艾滋病的历史,第一例艾滋病报道于1981年。当时,像其他传染性疾病一样,引起了不小的社会恐慌,实际上,人们并不知道这种疾病是从哪里来的,是否会传染他人,感染途径是什么。所以人们试图避免接触患上这种病的人。我记得有个报道说,公共游泳池关闭,艾滋病患者被赶出医院。不幸的是,血液途径感染的儿童被拒绝入学。这是一段非常恐慌的时期。但1983年后,科学家确认了是什么引起该病,HIV得到了确认,公众也很开心,因为大家认为,既然病毒引起了该疾病,那么可以通过疫苗,可以通过抗病毒疗法来控制及治愈该病。


Zou :So far the most effective treatment is still the antiretroviral treatment.
邹悦:目前最有效的疗法仍然是抗逆转录病毒疗法。

Xiao :That’s right, we call high active antiretroviral therapy, HAART. Combining therapy has been invented by several scientists like Doctor David Ho, he gave this idea like hit HIV early and hard. And then our pharmaceutical industry combine with the academic, found some anticancer drug can treat HIV and control HIV. Combining several drugs together make this cocktail control the progress of the disease. So by that time, that’s very happy, I remember that’s the time back to 1996, during this international AIDS convention, everybody think we can cure AIDS. But actuallyit is far away from cure AIDS.
肖飞:是的,我们将其称为高效抗逆转录病毒疗法,HAART。何大一医生等科学家发明了联合疗法。医药公司联合学术科研单位发现,一些抗癌药物可以用来治疗和控制HIV。数种药物的联合疗法——鸡尾酒疗法可以控制该病的进展。那时候是非常高兴的,我记得在1996年艾滋病国际大会上,每个人都认为该病是可以治愈的,但实际情况是,人们离艾滋病治愈还很遥远。

Zou:How far we get there of curing HIV/AIDS. Of course the antiretroviral treatment is a big breakthrough but how far is it that we can really cure the disease and keep people from getting infection.
邹悦:我们离艾滋病的治愈还有多远? 当然抗逆转录病毒疗法是一个突破,但我们离治愈该病、防止被感染还有多远?

Du:I think there are two levels. One is that there are lots of research going on about developing a vaccine so that people who do not have HIV can take the vaccine and become immuned, so that the person would not get HIV .So there is another level of cure is for people who already got HIV, can it be completely curable? But both are not available options now. What we could do is to help those who have gotten HIV to prolong their lives.
杜聪:我觉得要从两个层面来分析。一个层面是疫苗的研发,人们可以接种疫苗来预防艾滋病。另一个层面是艾滋病的治愈,羅患艾滋病的患者可以得到完全治愈。但现在两者都是并未实现的选项。我们所能做的是帮助那些HIV感染者延长生命。

Zou:There are researchers on both sides, which is likely to come to fruition the first?
邹悦:这两方面的研究都在积极开展中,哪一个会率先取得成果?

Du:I am more optimistic of a so-called functional cure, meaning that we can make a person who was HIV positive to lead a healthy life and also the viral load that means the density of the virus in the body to be undetectable.
杜聪:我对功能性治愈更为乐观,也就是让HIV阳性的人们过上更加健康的生活,让体内病毒的载量(密度)维持在检测不到的水平。

Zou:But the cocktail treatment already has done that, hasn’t it?
邹悦:但是鸡尾酒疗法已经做到治愈了,不是吗?

Du:Yes, but there are a few other criteria. And now earlier this year, I think we have seen some more encouraging testing and results that there are people who can be treated to become so-called functional cure without any other treatment programs, so I think on that front, I think it could be more helpful in a lot in a short term.
杜聪:是的,但我们有了一些其他标准。今年早些时候,我们看到了一些更令人鼓舞的检测结果,有患者经治疗转为功能性治愈,无需再接受其他治疗,所以我认为在短期内这方面可能更有希望。

Xiao:In the scientific aspects, we classify the cure as a functional cure or sterilizing cure. Functional cure means remission, we can keep the virus under control (Zou Yue:the virus load is very low). But HIV is very smart and one million HIV infect lymphocytes stay around, that’s we call lightened status, sleep there, once time ready and they wake up and reproduce the new virus. So we have to flush out this type of lymphocytes, we call them CD4 positive lymphocytes.
Right now, scientific research has made some achievements, they try to find a marker on those lightened CD4 lymphocytes. One scientific publication showing that they have already identify 50% of those group of lymphocytes. So if we can target them, we can find them and then we can destroy this group of lymphocyte. So probably we can realize the so-call sterilized cure, but one successful case is very interesting called Berlin patient.
肖飞:在科学领域,我们将治愈划分为功能性治愈和根治。功能性治愈指的是缓解,我们让病毒处于可控范围内。(邹悦:这种病毒载量是极低的。)但HIV病毒非常狡猾,有一百万个被艾滋病毒感染的淋巴细胞潜伏在那,我们称之为缓解状态,它们进入了休眠。一旦时机成熟,它们就会苏醒,产生新的病毒。所以我们要将这类CD4阳性的淋巴细胞“驱逐”出去。目前,科学家已经取得了一些成果,并在这些沉睡的CD4淋巴细胞上找到了一种标志物。一篇文献称,已经识别出了这群淋巴细胞中的50%。所以,如果可以靶向这些细胞,就能摧毁这些细胞,从而实现所谓的根治。一例称为“柏林病人”的成功病例非常有趣。

Zou:He is totally cured.
邹悦:该患者被完全治愈了。

Xiao:That’s right. This patient I interviewed and also Dr. Hütter I also interviewed with, they gave me the story .This patient is an AIDS patient but got another lethal  disease called leukemia. Dr. Hütter identified a donor have a genetic defect called CCR5. CCR5 is an adhesion molecule, but HIV need a binding CD4 receptor as well as CCR5 receptor into the cell and to fuse with CD4 lymphocytes and then to get into the cell. This group of People we call them elite controller. HIV can’t enter the cell because it lost 32 nucleotide and got this protein defected. After Mr. Brown, the Berlin Patient, received bone marrow transplantation and cured HIV as well as leukemia.
肖飞:是这样的。我采访了该患者和他的医生Dr. Hütter(胡特医生),他们给我讲了这样一个故事。这名患者既是艾滋病患者又患有致命的白血病。Hütter医生找到了一名CCR5基因缺陷的捐献者。CCR5是一种粘附因子,HIV需要结合CD4受体及CCR5受体,才能与CD4淋巴细胞融合,进入细胞。我们将这类CCR5基因缺陷的患者称为精英控制者。由于基因缺陷,缺失了32个核苷酸,蛋白质(CCR5受体)出现缺陷,因为这种基因缺陷,HIV无法进入淋巴细胞。柏林病人布朗在接受骨髓移植后,艾滋病和白血病都被治愈了。

Zou:Is his case applicable to other patients?
邹悦:该案例能否沿用到其他病人身上?

Xiao:Right now we found another new method we called CRISPR technology that is called the gene scissor, scientists can use this technology to artificially make gene defect, (Zou Yue :So at the genetic level, edit the gene of the patients) at genetic level. We can take AIDS patients’ lymphocytes out and do gene therapy, cut those CCR5 genes and then transfuse those lymphocytes back to patients.
肖飞:目前我们找到了另一种新方法,称之为CRISPR技术,也就是所谓的基因剪刀,科学家用此项技术能够人为地使基因出现缺陷。(邹悦:所以是在基因水平上编辑患者的基因。)我们可以把AIDS病人的淋巴细胞取出,进行基因治疗,剪除CCR5基因,之后把这些淋巴细胞再输回到病人体内。

Zou:Are those things are research level? Or they will be put into use very soon?
邹悦:这些还处于研究层面吗,还是会很快进入临床? 
Xiao:As I know, in UC San Francisco group already treat 12 patients but not use CRISPR technology but use zinc finger and the same way to cut CCR5 gene. And One patient got functionally cured, so far 2 year already. So right now they apply this technology on animal.
肖飞:据我所知,旧金山的一个研究团队已经治愈了12名患者,不是用基因剪刀技术,而是采用了锌指技术,用同样的方式剪除了CCR5基因。一个患者被功能性治愈,距今已有2年时间。目前,动物实验已经展开。

Zou:Can we say this just an exciting new development of medical research?
邹悦:我们是否可以说这是一项伟大的医学进展?

Du:It is very expensive and it is still very difficult to scale up, but we see these promising, and hopefully one day it can be popularize. The functional cure is something that we mean that once it has been achieved then you do not need to take the ARV drugs. So you said now we have the very low (virus) that could be undetectable but that is because we have been taking drugs every-day. But in order to achieve functional cure, that can be achieved without taking the drugs. That is something we hope to achieve.
杜聪:此项技术花费较贵,难以大规模展开,但的确是一项有前景的技术。希望以后能得到普及。功能性治愈是指一旦实现,你将无需再服用ARV药物。而你谈到的检测不到的病毒载量是靠每天服药。我们希望实现无需再服药的功能性治愈。

Zou:Let’s also talk about how people still get infection. What is the most risky way to get infected now? Although we have treatment, Still people get infected every day is it blood transfusion, sexual behavior anything else?
邹悦:让我们谈谈人们是如何感染的,最具风险的方式是什么?是通过性传播?血液传播?还是其他方式?  

Du:If you look at the current HIV population in China, people who are previous plasma donors who got HIV through blood transfusion or donation, still comprise very high percentage among the pop ulation.
杜聪:如果分析当前中国的HIV感染人群的话,血液传播感染者仍占有很高的比例。

Zou:So blood transfusion is the major contributor?
邹悦:所以血液传播是主要的途径?

Du:Historically. But now in the past few years, it has been effectively stopped or to a very minimal level.
杜聪:历史上血液传播是主要途径,但在过去这些年,已被有效阻止或控制在极低水平。

Zou:Because the government take the control measures.
邹悦:因为中国政府采取了控制措施。

Du:Exactly. And I think for the other two transmissions, mainly sexual transmission and IV use are catching up rapidly. That is the current state, but in the future, I think the sexual transmission will become the main way of spreading disease.  
杜聪:的确如此。其他的两个途径,主要是性传播和静脉注射传播,正增长得非常快。这就是目前的现状。我认为,未来性传播会变成主要的传播途径。

Zou:why do you say that?
邹悦:为什么这么讲?

Du:Because although IV use is a more effective way of spreading the virus, the population of people who are IV use still comprise relatively small number in our population.
杜聪:因为尽管注射传播是更有效的传播途径,但只占较小的比例。

Zou:Not as bigger population as blood transfusion people.
邹悦:不像血液传播者那样多。

Du :No no, (not)as population as the people had sex .We have a lot more people having sex everyday than people who are using injection for injecting drug uses. So the population base is lot bigger for sexual transmission. Even though the percentage maybe lower, it’s still the total number will become bigger
杜聪:是的,也不像性传播者那样多。我们每天有更多的人发生性行为,比注射毒品的人多得多,所以性传播的人口基数更大。即便比例可能更低,但性传播的总数仍更大。

Zou:Is this unique in China or global trend?
邹悦:这是中国特色,还是全球趋势?

Du:No, I think everywhere is the same
杜聪:我认为全世界都一样。

Xiao:I think go back to the history, HIV 1 have three major subtypes infected the whole world. In South America, HIV-1C, and in China and East Asia, HIV-1A, and in Europe and the States, that’s the HIV-1B. They have different subtypes, however they transmitted in the different way. Like in Europe or States, that’s the homosexual, that’s the gay. In China, those drug users and blood transfusion, start from those type of the life style or the performance. And in South Africa, that’s the mother-to-child and heterosexual transmission.
肖飞:回顾历史,全球HIV-1有三种主要亚型。南美是HIV-1C,中国和东亚是HIV-1A,欧洲和美国是HIV-1B。HIV有不同的亚型,传播途径也各不相同。例如,欧洲和美国是同性恋者。中国是吸毒者和血液传播。南非是母婴传播和异性恋传播。

Zou:We will talk about the social dimensions of the HIV/AIDS disease, you now watching dialogue here on CGTN, don’t go away, we’ll be right back.
邹悦:我们将从社会层面探讨HIV/艾滋病,您现在收看的是CGTN的对话节目。别走开,我们马上回来。

Zou:In memory of those HIV/AIDS victims and express solidarity with those who are millions of them infected with the HIV, China observes the International AIDS Candle Light Memorial Day which is May 21st this year, but we know there is a World AIDS Day which is December the first, what is the difference of the two memorial dates in terms of AIDS prevention?
邹悦:为了纪念艾滋病受害者,以及声援HIV感染者,中国与他们一起度过了今年5月21日的国际艾滋病烛光纪念日。我们都知道世界艾滋病日是每年的12月1日,对于预防艾滋病,这两个纪念日的区别是什么?

Du:I remember in 1983 when the AIDS Memorial Day was first established, it was a time for people to remember people who have died of AIDS and we make all the fancy quilt to commemorate them and also there was a strong part of breaking the social stigma associated with HIV/AIDS. And I think World AIDS Day later on become, more United Nations endorsed and public awareness raising event  so I think
杜聪:我记得在1983年举行的第一次艾滋病烛光纪念日,它的初衷是为了纪念那些因艾滋病去世的人,我们会做一些艾滋病拼布去纪念他们,同时也是为了消除这个社会对艾滋病的歧视。后来艾滋病纪念日得到了联合国的支持,并逐渐引起了大家的广泛关注。

Zou:Talking about the social stigma, it seems that still a lot of stigma associated with the disease, in this case HIV/AIDS. What is the status now in China in terms of people's attitude towards the disease and the people who are infected with it?
邹悦:说到社会歧视,疾病似乎伴随着许多社会歧视,这里主要是艾滋。在中国,人们对待这种疾病和感染者的态度,现在是什么状态?

Du:We have been working for 19 years on HIV/AIDS issues. Although we see significant progress on a medical treatment side, the social stigma still impact people who have HIV and people who have family members who have HIV very deeply. One of our main, people that we serve the children orphaned by AIDS, and over 90% of these children do not have HIV themselves.
杜聪:我们已经对艾滋病做了长达19年的工作,尽管我们在医疗方面取得了显著进展,但社会歧视依然影响着艾滋病人和他们的家人。我们服务的一个主要群体是那些因艾滋病成为孤儿的儿童。他们90%以上并未感染病毒。

Zou:So a parent with HIV does not necessarily mean the children with HIV.
邹悦:所以父母患有艾滋病,并不意味着他们的孩子也会感染HIV。

Du:Exactly, because some children would get infected because of mother-to-child transmission but many of them were born without HIV. But they still got discriminated against at school or by neighbors just because they have parents who have died of HIV/AIDS, so that is a big social stigma that we have to deal with and I feel that we still have a lot of public education to do. And another issue is that we see that people who get HIV through sexual transmission, are young people. Some of the people that we serve and now sponsor the educationare students who are 18-19 years old, and I remember one time that a mother came to apply for the scholarship and then she said that my child got HIV when he was in high school and I felt so ashamed, and he got into a very good university. And I told the mother that you shouldn't feel ashamed yourself because it is also part of the responsibility of the society and the school, because in our education system we only educate our students how to get good grades and how to pass the exam but we fail to recognize that there is a social need of our young people, especially nowadays with the internet they can get a lot of information and sexual information. And out of curiosity, I think it is perfectly normal and understandable for young people to have an interest in sex and we have to recognize the fact that a lot of people who are young, are having sexual activities, but if we don't teach them in school and assuming that this is not happening, we would lead to more and more young people who got HIV and that's part of our responsibility.
杜聪:确实如此,有些儿童被感染是通过母婴传播,但是大部分儿童出生时并不携带病毒,不过,他们依然受到来自学校、邻居的歧视,仅仅因为他们的父母因艾滋病去世。这就是我们要面对的社会歧视。我们仍需进行大量公共教育。另一个问题是,年轻人通过性传播感染HIV。我们所服务并资助就学的学生年龄在18岁~19岁,我记得有一次,一位母亲来申请奖学金,说她的孩子在高中时感染HIV,她感到很羞耻,后来这个学生进入了一所非常好的大学。我告诉这位母亲,她无需感到羞耻,因为社会和学校也要负一部责任,我们的教育系统只教导学生取得好成绩,如何通过考试,但并不重视年轻人的社会需求,尤其是现在学生可以从网络获得许多信息,出于好奇去获取一些性相关的信息,我认为这完全正常,青少年对性行为感兴趣完全可以理解,但如果我们未能在学校教育他们,并假想这一切不会发生,我们会让更多的年轻人感染HIV,这是我们的责任。

Zou:In reality, that shame part is still a big contributor to many problems, when we're dealing with HIV/AIDS. A lot of people they don't want to get checked because they feel they will be discriminated against if they get affected. What can we do to change the status quo? It’s the government? It’s the NGOs? The schools? Who should bear the brunt of the responsibility.
邹悦:事实上,在我们处理艾滋病时,感到羞愧导致了许多问题。许多人不想接受检查,因为他们如果真的被感染,他们会觉得被歧视。我们可以做些什么来改变这一现状?政府、非政府组织、学校,谁应该承担最大的责任?

Xiao:I give you a story and an example. I participated the World AIDS Day two years ago and I gave the information to my classmates and there was a girl, you know, and then she wants to turn on TV and watch the show, and her husband says that's all bad guy, call this disease. So that's the problem, this is wrong, so the AIDS patient is a victim.
肖飞:我有个故事想要分享。两年前的世界艾滋病日,我告诉我的同学——一个女孩想看艾滋病节目,但她的丈夫说得了艾滋病的人都是坏人。这样是不对的,艾滋病人也是受害者。

Zou:Because people believe, only those with degenerate moral can get such kind of disease. This is many people's beliefs.
邹悦:因为大多数人都相信,只有道德败坏的人才会得这种病。

Du:But the truth is, a lot of them got HIV because they are poor and had to sell blood. A lot of them got HIV because they had a sexual encounter and they had no information on sexual education at schools, so they were ignorant. So it is not completely any.
杜聪:但真相是,许多人是因为贫穷,去卖血才感染了HIV。有许多人因为性接触感染HIV,他们在学校没有接受性教育,他们对此一无所知,所以这不完全是道德败坏的问题。

Zou:Well, even those who are promiscuous in their lives, should we blame them? Because they have many sex partners.
邹悦:对于那些生活中乱交的人,我们应该责备他们吗?因为他们有许多性伴侣。

Du:Of course, No.
杜聪:当然不应该。

Xiao:We should give them care and we should get public education to these AIDS patients..
肖飞:我们应该给予关怀,让艾滋病患者接受公共教育。

Zou:And who do you think should do that, the schools or the government, or the NGOs?
邹悦:你认为谁应该做这些事,学校?政府?非政府组织?

Du:It depends on the age of the people we're talking about. If for students, I definitely think that we our education system has very strong responsibility of teaching sexual education at school, so that our children can protect themselves not because we are encouraging them to have sex and that is a very important part, that's the reason. I think our CDC is doing a great job in in treatment and also prevention and care with a lot of NGOs, but I think there is the missing part is the school education which i think is also important.
杜聪:这取决于对象的年龄。如果是学生的话,我坚定地认为我们的教育系统在性教育上负有很大责任,开展性教育并不是因为要鼓励他们进行性行为,而是为了让我们的孩子可以保护自己,这才是最重要的原因。我认为疾病预防控制中心与许多非政府组织在治疗、预防和保障上做得非常出色,但我认为学校教育的缺失也是很重要的一个原因。

Zou:Another thing is to how the society should treat those people that didn’t infected. It was reported that students in Central China, Henan Province would have to undergo HIV/AIDS test when entering college. What do you think of this fame and what impact it will have on the students, on their parents, on the school?
邹悦:另一个问题是,社会该如何对待非艾滋人群。有报道称,河南省的学生在进入大学前要接受HIV/AIDS检测,你如何看待这一新闻,这会对学生、父母和学校产生何种影响?

Du :I definitely object this idea because it would lead to witch-hunt, anybody to further stigmatization……
杜聪:我坚决反对这样的做法,因为这会导致社会对艾滋病人的“迫害”,进一步导致歧视。

Zou:There are arguments we are protecting the majority of people who are not infected.
邹悦:有评论称,这是为了保护没有感染的绝大多数人。

Du:No. Number one we should promote VCT voluntary counseling and testing, if those who are afraid of this kind of universal mandatory testing, it's because of the social stigma, because they are afraid to be tested, but it also has a direct connection with the level of social acceptance if the society is very accepting then nobody would care or mind as much of being exposed. So on the one hand we should promote voluntary counseling and testing, we respect the rights of the people and hopefully they can get testing themselves on the voluntary basis, and the argument is that the earlier you know your status, the earlier you can get treatment and the longer you can live. And at the same time we should promote a more accepting environment……
杜聪:不,如果有人害怕广泛的强制检测的话,我们首先应该推动自愿咨询和检测,因为这是社会歧视的问题,他们害怕检测,这又直接与社会接受度有关,如果社会能够包容,那么不会有人关心或者在乎暴露自己,所以一方面,我们应该促进自愿咨询和检测,我们尊重公民的权利,我们希望他们自愿接受检测,有证据显示,越早诊断,就能越早治疗,活得越久;同时,还应提倡一种更为宽容的环境。

Zou:Because this practice actually reinforce the message that those with HIV infection a very special group and we should treat differently.
邹悦:实际上,让学生接受检测加强了一种讯息:HIV感染者是一个非常特殊的群体,我们要区别对待他们。

Xiao:We should borrow some examples from developed country and actually we should make some overcome, like OTC type of the test case, and let the people bring those kits back home and they can do by themselves but we should give them the hope that if you treat early, you can survive like normal people and we always give them this message, you know, you have to believe, you know, scientific development, scientific breakthrough and living with the AIDS, living with HIV and wait the day being cured, so give them courage, give them hope and let them voluntarily get a test.
肖飞:我们应该从发达国家借鉴一些例子,我们应该做出一些突破,就像非处方药的形式,人们可以买到试剂盒,可以带回家,自己进行诊断。我们还应给予他们希望,如果早期治疗,可以像普通人一样存活。我们传达一种信息:相信科学发展、科学突破,与艾滋病共生存、与HIV共生存,等待治愈的那天到来,所以要给他们勇气,给予希望,让他们自愿接受检测。

Du:I hope our Ministry of Education also publicly said that students with HIV can be integrated into our education system there's no need to isolate them and they have the right to be educated as well, and we all the schools should not kick them out of school although it happens on a real, you know, on a daily basis, but this is certainly not the intention of our government.
杜聪:我希望教育部可以公开地说,HIV感染的学生可以和其他人一样在一个教育系统中就学,而无需隔开他们,他们有权接受教育,学校不应把他们拒之门外,虽然现实中会发生这样的事,但这并非我们政府的目的。

Zou:And that's said, especially people in their 20s, college students still have a higher rate of transmission in an infection of HIV, there was a latest news story about students in Hunan province, got 100 cases, most of them are gay men, they got infected most because of their sexual behavior so what do you think we need to do, should we worry about this new phenomena of young gay men in their colleges getting infected.
邹悦:大学生,尤其是在20多岁,在HIV感染方面有更高的传播率,一个最新的消息是,湖南省学生调查中有100例是男同性恋,并大部分因性行为感染HIV,你认为我们需要做些什么,我们应该担心大学中的年轻男同性恋者这一新现象吗?

Du:Yes, of course, but I think we should not blame homosexuality because I believe that sexual orientation is something that they are inborn and there's nothing that we can change and they should not be changed and we should respect people's sexual orientation, what we should do is to change the sexual behavior and make them have a safer sex, and that is through public prevention messages and also a more able and accepting social environments
杜聪:当然,我们应该担心这一现象,但我们不应该批判同性恋,因为性取向是天生的,无法改变的,也不应该被改变,我们应该尊重人们的性取向,我们应该做的是改变性行为,让他们进行安全的性行为,这要通过公共预防信息、更宽容的社会环境实现。

Zou:Let themselves treat their conditions in a very cool and scientific way, don't treat it as something that should be shamed about.
邹悦:让艾滋病人用平静且科学的心态去对待他们的疾病,而不是把得病当作羞耻的东西。

Du:Exactly, and also I must also stress another point is that although we all seem to see a lot of MSM men who have sex with men being tested positive, especially now with the among universityStudents, but if you look at the bigger picture, still a lot more heterosexual men and women who are infected every day.
杜聪:的确如此。我还要强调的一点是,虽然我们看到有许多男同性恋者HIV检测阳性,尤其是在大学生中,但如果我们以更广阔的角度来看,有更多的异性恋者感染HIV。

Zou:So it is not a gay disease.
邹悦:所以这不是同性恋者专属的疾病。

Du:So it is not a gay disease and they may have a disproportionately higher attention in the media because it seems that they are more promiscuous or they're promoting, but I think we look at a bigger picture we are still looking at mostly heterosexual men and women.
杜聪:这不是同性恋者专属的疾病。他们可能会得到媒体更高的关注度,他们似乎更为乱交,但我认为,如果我们以更广阔的角度来看,我们会看到更多的异性恋者。

Zou:But the problem is how to let people every day to have a bigger picture of the disease and be cool minded about this. We're running out of time, thank you very much Mr. Du and Dr. Xiao, thank you so much for in the show, thank you and you've been watching dialogue on CGTN. I'm Zou Yue, thank you so much for watching. Good night.
邹悦:但问题是如何让大众以更广阔的角度、更为冷静地来看待艾滋病。所剩时间不多,感谢杜先生和肖博士,非常感谢参加对话栏目,感谢收看CGTN对话节目,我是邹悦,感谢收看,晚安。

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